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Wanli Blue and White Vase

by George Qhegeous
(Yorkshire)

Wanli Vase overall View

Wanli Vase overall View

Hi there,

I was hoping you could give me some info on this blue and white vase I have from the wanli period, fingers crossed. The back stamp is exactly what you want to see with the only imperfection being the 6th script(bottom left) a line has rubbed leaving a faded dot but can tell the line was there by eye sight. As I am planning on selling my collectrion of oriental vases I was hoping some one could tell whether or not this piece is genuine. The body white is a tint of blue . The detail is birds,bees and butterlies around foliage and the darker blue is over glaze, which I read was common practice on some wares from Jiajing to the Wanli Period. I appreciate any feedback good or bad.

Kind Regards

George Qhegeous

Comments for Wanli Blue and White Vase

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thanks
by: George Qhegeous

Thanks for clearing that up for me Peter. Great site you have here.
modern fake
by: mike

100% fake.
vase
by: peter

Sorry if I did not express clearly what I meant.
1. The style of painting used on your vase is something that is frequently encountered on Japanese porcelain, but not on ANY antique Chinese porcelain.
2. The shape is not a traditional Chinese shape.
3. You can find (Chinese) Ming marks on antique and vintage Japanese porcelain, added for decoration, of course. More common are Chenghua or one or two other Ming marks, but I have never seen a Wanli mark.
4. The characters of the mark are written in a style that is not typical of the time (Wanli, Ming), but rather of the way they would be written today. This concerns the writing style only...it may take some Chinese calligraphy/writing knowledge to see the sometimes minute difference of writing between old and new writing styles.
Again, this concerns only the writing style of the characters, not the mark itself or what the characters say. Wanli mark characters are written in a similar character style as those in Kangxi period marks, but there is a big difference between both these two and the characters on your vase. The mark on the vase is written in a more recent style.

In my opinion (1) and (2) above leave only two possibilities:
It is either Japanese, or it is a modern Chinese item copying Japanese styles (they copy everything nowadays).
The mark is the big question here. Why is it there? I have not a deep enough knowledge of Japanese porcelain that I could tell if Wanli marks were used on Japanese porcelain. Maybe someone collecting Japanese porcelain can tell...

So, for me there are two possible conclusions. One is that this is a Japanese item with a Chinese mark or, that this is a more recent Chinese copy of Japanese styles, with a Wanli mark applied to it. Either way this is not a period mark.

I would try to find out if Wanli marks were used on antique or vintage Japanese porcelain.
Wanli
by: George Qhegeous

Hi Again.

Thanks for taking a look at my vase.

Your comments don't make much sense to me I'm afraid. I have a lacquer ware vase the same shape as this vase. Wanli commissioned many lacquer ware vases of this shape during his reign. What I don't get is that when the Chinese mark has slight differences then its put aside as a rushed and incompetent painter making the piece a repro. But even when the mark is perfect then its put aside as it would have been differing a bit during the Ming Dynasty. That's what I don't get in the antique book Masons Chinese marks the mark is perfect alongside this one in question and even they say to look out for inconsistencies in the way the mark is written as the ming marks are more or less perfect. What do you mean when you say the mark differed during the Ming Dynasty? For one I don't think this is Ming as the milky blue body does shine although it has got a cream look, it still looks new. If you were to put a date on this what description would you put on it?

Thanks Truly
George
vase
by: peter

Hello,
This piece is either modern Chinese or Japanese, in my opinion. The decoration style looks more Japanese, but if the mark is under the glaze, then the chance that it is Japanese is low. While some Chinese marks were used on Japanese porcelain, the Wanli marks is not seen that often.
The mark is only for decoration. It is written in a character style which is used now.During the Ming Dynasty it would have been differing a bit. The shape appears also to be deviating from traditional shapes of the time.

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