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Comments for Vase with more than 170 Years (2)

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Feb 28, 2012
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by: Margarida Dias

I don´t know. What it was passed is that it was bought in 1841 being old in that time. If the gold was added not sure, if the mark was added too not my fault. In my personal collection i have for sure 3 kangxi dishes, the Imperial Bed and an ancient porcelain Painting with rosewood frame. I´ll do a post just for showing, not authentication (as i have it).
Feb 28, 2012
 millefiori lidded jar
by: peter

Hi Margarida,
Thanks for uploading more pictures. I regret to say so, but they enforce the impression that they are not what you think.

This is my comment regarding to your original answer, and an additional comment to the new pictures follows below.

My original opinion:
I cannot tell for sure how old this item is from these pictures. The lighting is not so good as it does not show clear colors, and the bottom is not shown. It is better you get someone to do a hands-on inspection.

In these pictures the gilt looks shiny. If it is because of the lighting or not is difficult to tell from the photos. N, gilt is not just gilt... the gilt used on Chinese porcelain before the late Qing dynasty (late 19th century) was different from that used later.
If your gilt is the shiny variety, the only possibility that the vase could be old would be if it was painted in Europe, or perhaps in the Hongs in Canton before shipping to Europe. Chinese porcelain just didn't use the same gilt as European porcelain did in the early 1800s!

Explaining the problem with the mark should be done by your side. Only an inspection of the actual item can resolve this.
According to my information this mark cannot be early 19th century, the period you mention for its purchase.
Unless there is proof that the mark was added at a later date, it will be difficult to make it 170 years old. This is my personal view. Please ask for a second opinion. I cannot tell you more...

BTW, are you sure it is THIS vase and not another one?

After seeing the better pictures I'm convinced that this is not a Chinese millefiori jar dated 1840s. There are two additional facts that speak against it.

The following two additional points become apparent. (1) The shape isn't the standard shape for such jars (ginger jars) used in the Qing dynasty. (2) With Chinese jars of this type the shoulder and neck would be without decoration and glaze if it were made in the early 19th century, according to what I know about such jars.
The shape looks more like that of a Japanese jar than a Chinese one, but could be this way if it were made in the 20th century.

(Example: the shape of the jar shown here has a standard Chinese shape as used in the 19th century: www.collectfair.co.uk/dragonoriental/page11.html )

With this we have the problem of the brightness of the gilt which would agree with European or Japanese porcelain, or later Chinese porcelain, a shape that does not agree with Qing dynasty Chinese ginger jars, a decorated neck, and a mark that does not fit the early 19th century, but could be late Qing dynasty or republic period.
I'm afraid with so many incongruences I cannot come to another conclusion than before.

Again, could it be that this is not the original vase your ancestor bought?

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