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Teadust glaze

by William
(St. Petersburg, Fl)

Hi, Peter

I used Teadust to describe the vessel because that's the term used when sold, but as you stated the glazes are different, however the colors are very near like. This explains a lot, mainly why I could not find a similar example while surfing under Tea Dust Chinese vase, as opposed to Celadon jar. Would like to point out two things though, the vessel is not depicting a pig, but a mongoose, and the non-traditional shape you mentioned is a common barrel shape, once I began searching the term Celadon, found a few 19th century comparables, all Chinese, resembling mine, maybe not in age but in form, minus the whimsical features, you can view them at the links below. I am not yet convinced it's all that modern and will continue inquiring for a definitive answer of age. Am posting one more picture, only to show shape in contrast to the 19th century examples.


.................

crm1.php?sb=1&sd=desc&start=120

lot #268a Grey Jar--called Chinese celadon glazed porcelain jar
..................

www.alaintruong.com/archives/2012/05/05/index.html

White Jar- 4th from bottom----called An Imperial celadon-'Clair-de-lune'-glazed
barrel-shaped jar, China, underglaze blue Qianlong seal mark and period. Photo Nagel---
6.5 inches high

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www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-celadon-glazed-barrel-form-jar-qianlong-seal-mark-5348103-details.aspx

OR go to CHRISTIES.COM and use the--Sale 2339 / Lot 1444 and CHINESE WORKS OF ART in the drop down

Light Green Barrel Jar called A CHINESE CELADON-GLAZED BARREL-FORM

JAR---QIANLONG SEAL MARK IN UNDERGLAZE BLUE---6.5 inches high
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www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CHINESE-TEA-CADDY-OR-CANNISTER-GINGER-JAR-VASE-BARREL-SHAPED-JARS-/170965883606?
pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item27ce5c5ad6


William

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comment part 2 of 2
by: peter

(Sorry, had to split comment as size was limited.)

Now as to the real shape, as it should be with traditional Chinese items. First I need to explain what the shape really is. You will find that it is often called "barrel shaped". I don't care who calls it that way, be it a ceramics "expert" or whatever, I don't care how many people in the west call it that way - this shape is not imitating a barrel! The correct description would be "drum shaped". Yes, this is the shape of the traditional Chinese drum. It is still commonly used. Nowadays it can be most often can be seen in action at temple events, etc.
China never had "barrels" in the sense of the European wine barrel. They used huge ceramic jars for storing water and wine. There are head. The rings serve for mounting the drums on a stand. Need I to explain more? The animal shape your item has, in my personal opinion, is most likely the creation of a modern studio potter.

I don't quite understand how this should be Chinese, apart from the glaze being similar to one of the many glazes the Chinese ceramics industry used over the last 1500 years. Also, that glaze was most commonly used from about the Sui/Tang dynasties to the Yuan and Ming dynasty. Not much in the 300 years following these, because celadon production was in decline since then.

Not convinced? If not, I would try to ask for a second opinion. But please make sure that the person asked knows his/her stuff. Only someone knowledgeable in "Chinese" ceramics will do. When you buy Chinese antiques or Chinese porcelain, please make sure that the seller understands his stuff. There are too may who have no idea what they have. Believe me, most of us have spent money on items that were not what we thought.

All the Best.
comment part 1 of 2
by: peter

Hi William,
Never mind the glaze. It is sometimes difficult to know what it is. The glaze names are even more difficult in Chinese ...

Hope you don't get this wrong, but I will try to explain in more detail. First of all, the most important single detail for judging age or origin in ANY Chinese antique porcelain item is its bottom or foot.
The bottom of your item cannot be antique Chinese. Actually, it has no Chinese traits at all.
You have three possibilities:
1. It is not Chinese at all
2. It is Chinese, but a modern creation
3. It is both, not Chinese and a modern creation

The forms or shapes of antique Chinese porcelain is not myriads, a limited number of shapes was mostly reused over centuries, and a few disappeared over time. Chinese ceramics were not subjected to much creativity. Individual potters were rare; usually there was little innovation. An animal face or shape on a traditional vessel would have been inconceivable, or at least an exception from the rule. Anyway, such creative products are generally the playfield of western potters, or perhaps Japanese, although the Chinese now also try to create modern designs, for export.

I am not sure which of the three possibilities above applies in your case, but I am fairly sure that the item you have does not have a traditional Chinese design. Not even the "barrel" is similar to Chinese designs.

I could access three of the links you posted. Those on the websites of Alain Truong and the auction house are typical, antique Chinese porcelain items. That on Ebay is new, but the shape is still right, conforming to the same Chinese traditional shape. The former two are top quality items, probably very expensive.

(please continue to part 2)

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Tea-Dust Glazed Chinese Vase

by William
(St. Petersburg Fl)

Hello, Peter

I've had this for some years now and believe it to be a Tea-Dust-Glazed Chinese vassal of some sort, is heavy for it's size 5.5 inches high and 4.5 diameter, has applied face of an animal, ears, feet and arms with hands-folded are also applied, three raised beaded rings en-circle the body, Would like more on identification of this vase, and I am not certain of it's age or value but would appreciate info pertaining to it as well.

Thanks In Advance

William

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vase
by: peter

Hi William,
That is not "teadust". See here for an example: www.bonhams.com/auctions/16095/lot/8241/

Closeup seen the glazes are completely different.
This might be classified as a sort of celadon, perhaps.
Anyway, not sure if this is Chinese at all. If it is, it must be modern. A vessel depicting a pig like this one is a modern creation. In the past this would have been unimaginable in China, I think. This is not a traditional shape. The bottom is also not right for something that is antique and Chinese. This could as well be from any other place.

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