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Nov 18, 2011
 Dehua
by: peter

Hi Tim,
Yes, I thought that too, until I got an opportunity to learn from someone with incredible knowledge in the field.
Actually, Dehua started producing blue and white porcelain in the late Ming dynasty, and did so throughout the Qing dynasty. Most people are only aware of the Blanc-de-Chine wares they produce. By the way, the snow-white wares were only made later in the Qing dynasty. The wares made from the late Ming dynasty were ivory white.
Most of us own or have seen Dehua blue wares, but are not conscious that they are from that kiln. Several of my own items were declared as Dehua blue and whites.
Dehua wares have some features that make them easy to differentiate from those made in Jingdezhen, once you know what to look for. One of these characteristics is an outer rim that is thickened on the underside of plates. Jingdezhen wares don't have this and have the same thickness to the very edge. The current plate looks as if it had a thick rim, it seems to me.

Dehua also made green and some other wares. Considereing that it has been firing ceramics since neolithic times, it is not such a surprise after all. More than two thousand years.
Nov 18, 2011
 Plate
by: Tim

I thought Dehua did not produce any blue and white porcelain, at least very little, anyway, because the type of clay used made the cobalt oxide run too much?

I'm glad you were able to find a similar plate, Peter. My first impression was the decoration is too static to be drawn in the Ming period. With Qianlong it makes perfect sense because everything was so neat and tidy. The wares kind of lost some of their vigor.
Nov 17, 2011
 Thanks.
by: Arto

Thank you Peter for your professional comments!
As I understand it, this is propably made some 120+ years ago.


Question:
Based on what evidence? Any concrete proof? Most patterns of this type are from the Yongzheng/Qianlong period, not the Guangxu era. What is more is that the dragons type used on the plate is almost never found in the 19th century.
But, the key is really in your hands. Are the colors true? Can you upload some shots taken in daylight, near a window, without shades or lamp light interfering?

Peter
Nov 17, 2011
 Qing dynasty
by: peter

Thanks for the additional pictures.
Looks old to me, no doubt.
Originally, I suspected this to be late Qing period, because of the dark color of the blue decoration. As the lighting conditions under which your plate pictures were made are less than ideal to get true blue and white colors, I assume that in the pictures the decoration looks actually slightly darker than it really is. Pictures are usually better made in daytime near a window.

I have found a very similar plate, that was doubtlessly made at the same place, in one of my Chinese books. The decoration is the same with a Shou character in the center and two dragons surrounding it. Similar decoration bands run along the rim and one farther inside.
The only real difference is that the blue color is not as dark as that of your plate.

The plate is probably middle to late 18th century, Yongzheng or Qianlong reign with apocryphal Ming mark. The underside of the rim in one of the closeups looks as if it could have been made at Dehua kiln, but not sure.
There exists a number of similar decoration patterns, all from about the same period.

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